Construction Kit?

I thinking of purchasing this program and was wandering if it really helps with building better coasters? Is the smoother better? Does the de pumper work well ? Is the autoflanger better? Is the programs in it better than the free ones on coaster candy?

[Dirk_Ermen]

for difference i havn't really tried it, but imo the smoother works better. The 3d exporter is just great. If you puchase it i should buy the 3d exporter with it.

Im sure there are more opinions out there. And thank you Dirk for the opinion

Well...I live off this thing. You also get this neat little tool that shows the radius of the entire track. It adds a comb that gets larger (plus turns red) when the radius is large and smaller (and turns blue) when the radius gets smaller. Its perfect for detecting pumps.

You though will have to probably tweak the way you build in order to use the de-pumper correctly. The de-pumper works in that it smooths the track but goes over it and adjusts the handles so they are close to being equal. It also adjust the position of them alot, sometimes screwing up an area, sometimes not.

The de-pumper is great for hills, almost perfect. For turns, if the radius is the same, or getting smaller or larger continuously, again, perfect.

For inversions and rolls, its NOT good. Why? Because in a roll, say a heartline or zero g roll, you need the handles to not be perfectly equal, which will cause rotational pumping. In a case like that, Id say to use the de-pumper on say, a parabola for a zero g. Then use the AHG on it (with same number of segments) and it will adjust it so the banking should be perfect. From there though, heartlining it is up to you. Im learning that with Hydra right now...theres no easy way to do a custom Zero G.


Oh yea, the 3ds export also rules. I highly reccommend at least the 10 dollar upgrade. If you can figure out and justify using the 3ds export, then the 25 is a steal as well.

[gouldy]

Its quite funny for me reading topics like this, it makes me fell old fashioned or something, considering I have only ever used busters smoother and only ever on a couple of track, I think you can see why I feel old fashioned I still build all my tracks using no tools at all [:P]

IMO these tools still retain the skill that puts into a hand made track. Remember, the AHG and the smoothers are what are called "Multipliers". They only take good tracks and make them better, not crappy or mediocre tracks.

I dont have the time also to sink into it like I used to. Plus, real engineers have tons of tools at their disposal along with tons of mathematical algorithms. Why make anything harder than it has to be?

They only take good tracks and make them better, not crappy or mediocre tracks.

I beg to differ. I can randomly place vertices on the grid on NL with as little skill as possible and then using the tracksmoother all the points are adjusted to make a near perfect track. True that it would take skill in designing a unique and original track, but it simply takes the skill out of all the trackwork. Sure you coukd finetune all the points on a track so they were near perfect, then use the tracksmoother, but in all honesty the difference is pretty much insignificant imo.

But still i do agree with you last point 'Why make anything harder than it has to be?'

Random points prove nothing.

I have run into MANY different situations where the smoother ruined what I had. One thing the smoother doesnt take into consideration is the rate the radius is changing, or banking is changing. In alot of cases the regular smoother will take a node and move it, and make one handle REALLY long and the other short...in a turn no less. What does this do? Instead of smoothing, it creates a huge con roll jerk.

Even still the de-pumper is supposed to fix that, but say for lead ins to a turn, where you need the handles to be different, well then thats all messed up cause itll make the handles nearly identical causeing other weird things.


Random points doesnt really prove that it makes it near perfect. If you have a track that you can say proves your point, post it up. But I bet while it WILL fix a few things, itll screw up just as many in the process. You have to almost design FOR the smoother in order for it to work its best. Same for the de-pumper and the AHG.

Originally posted by gouldy

Its quite funny for me reading topics like this, it makes me fell old fashioned or something, considering I have only ever used busters smoother and only ever on a couple of track, I think you can see why I feel old fashioned I still build all my tracks using no tools at all [:P]

Same here, though i have never used the track smoother once, it makes me feel more accomplished when people like my coasters when i do it all completly by hand...but thats just IMO.

i agree, all of my tracks are 100% hand made too (except for the occasional prefabs) lol... that's probably why my rides have an average rating of 6.5 lol. still, it does make u feel more accomplished.

Real is right, the smoother won't work too good on a crappy track. This is the basic concept behind the simple smoother:
First the handles will be adjusted sligtly, so they at least are in one plane with handle in front, the one behind and the tracknode itself. This is allready a big step towards a smoother transition. Next it will adjust the tracknode between the handles in such a way that the radius at both ends is equal. This it will do perfectly. The Problem is the trackwork on the input-track. If you are using very few segments for a turn or you have a huge bump in there, the transition will afterwards be smooth as glass, but the beziers themselfs will be all distorted. So it turns bumps into pumps if you will...

The added depumper and C2 options do more however. After the normal smoothing process, like described above, it will move the whole Tracknote, complete with handles, rotate it if necessary and do some more mathematical analysis so that in the end, you not only got a smooth transition, but also eqal handle lengths, which usually is good for banking.

The depumper is the final step. It tries to adjust the equal sized handles so that the turn won't pump. It works perfect for helixes for example. You could build a square and get a circle...

Anyway. The big advantage of the version that comes with CK (apart from the two new options "c2" and "depump") is that you can specify where to do what. So if you know that the depump will screw some of the track up, just leave that part out.

And of course the track needs to be good anyway, you won't get much out of it with crappy trackwork. I too would be interested to see that crappy track that turns into gold, Edge.

BTW: My latest coasters contain close to no handmade parts. If at all, then maybe the station and the final brake. All the rest I build using all the tools that are available (Elementary, Purg, smoother, AHG). The final tracks quality is near perfect if I may say so. And I doubt it takes less skill to work like that. Maybe it even takes more since you have to do a lot of tweaking, calculating, etc.; especially when you want to build complex maneuvers.

Buster.

For me, sometimes the smoother works, sometimes it doesn't, though I use it whenever possible. I have no time to learn how to use all the formulas of the elementary though. But I use whatever I can since I have serious problems with smoothing, especially since you can't adjust a node in NL one way without screwing it up. Say I try to extend one of the points from the top view. So the piece of crap messes up the pitching of it and I have to spend more time fixing that. Adjust it again (it happens alot, get over it), and you have to adjust the pitching again. Not to mention how the direction is more than likely to screw up along with it.

I bet Buster is the only one who knows more than I about the Smoothers...probably because he made them LOL !!

That should sum that all up. I do a little bit more hand work, infact, probably still 50-75% of my work is done by hand, then smoothed out and refined dozens of times. So underneath all of that, its still mostly my handywork. I can work so fast because my original track is usually pretty good.

I can also work fast at smoothing my rides, but i want to get closer to perfection! I also need some layouts! How the hell do you think of good layouts, mine are usually dead smooth rides but the layouts are so shite it brings the rating down. Any tips or just do re creations for the rest of my life?

Just look at real rides. I did have trouble with this and still do a little bit. You might want to make something in RCT2/3 first. (unless it's so limiting that you can't even start it... Rare occasion but possible.) Just remember on RCT3 not to use overbanks on the B&M's, otherwise you are more likely to use them on NL and get points taken off.

B&M's cant have overbanks? huh?

http://www.rcdb.com/ig632.htm?picture=3
http://www.rcdb.com/ig2536.htm?picture=41
http://www.rcdb.com/ig1414.htm?picture=19

Surely the first 2 are, Ive ridden the first one and you go past 90 degrees. Obviously the second one is obvious and the third one is close. Any doubts now?

[coolbeans326]

*wispers to Real* I think coasteragent is crazy */wisper*

The one in RCT3 looks nothing like those in the pics.

Most of them look like 90 degree turns anyways.

im wondering where i can get the Construction kit? Can i get it straight off of the No-Limits site, or from somewhere else?

Oh! The one in RCT I bet is what youd call a "Cut Back" right? A 180 degree turn that banks upsidedown, then comes back? The one on Dominator is more than 90, its like 130 degree turn with a 100 degree banking. Silver Bullet is like 145 degrees, its really banked.

Construction Kit can be got at www.gravimetricstudios.com

ahh! thankyou Real, always the helpfull one [8D]

my friend told me about this construction kit and how it was really good and whenever he tries to tell me how to use it i get confused.

[Dirk_Ermen]

^^ cool, digging old topics up [:D]
This topic was finish a month ago [:D]

and what about the turnaround on Nitro?

What about it?