calculate g-forces

[Dirk_Ermen]

i've just learned something great at physics today. How to calculate speed. Well, i can apply that at my coasters so i can draw even some layout better at school cause i know what's the speeds are and will be. Now it would be nice if i also can calculate the g-forces through a turn and hills. But how can i do that?

A = v2 / r (The "v2" is v squared divided by r)

A little more explanation for you:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/question633.htm
http://www.vast.org/vip/book/PHYSIOLO/HOME.HTM

[Dirk_Ermen]

thanks for the links [:)]

[Dirk_Ermen]

i've made a page where you can check the calculation of the speeds. take a look.
http://members.home.nl/ermen.dirk/Websi ... tions.html

I'll add the g-force calculations when i understand them more. [:)]

G = 9.81N Using 10N is way to inaccurate. Also you didnt actualy tell me anything about G'forces as in coasters. You just told me that an object falling from a height of 50 metres accelerating at 10(wrong, should be 9.81) ms-2 will give you a resultant speed of 113.84 kmph. And you used such a (r) formula. Why not just use Newtons equations of motion?

Is this case i would use the third(or maybe forth, i forget) equation of motion which is
(V= final velocity, U=Inital velocity, T= Time, A= acceleration, X= displacement/distance)

v2 = u2 + 2ax (2 after a letter represents squared, cant superscript)

in this instance we can cancel out the inital velocuty as it is 0

Now you saying that you wish to know the final velocity of say a ball, dropped from 50m.

This is the method i was taught to work this out. First i would add VUTAX to the side, which is basicaly all the units you have be given and fill them in...like so

V= ?
U= 0 ms
T= ?
A= 9.81 (gravitational force)
X= 50 m

Now its a case of filling out the equation and seeing what we get
V2 = U2 + 2AX
V2 = (2x9.81) x 50m
V2 = 981mss (take note, to get V, you will need to half you answer)
V = 490.5ms

So we have worked out that by dropping a ball from rest at a height of 50m, with a uniform acceleration due to gravity of 9.81ms, a ball will be travelling, as it reaches the 50 metre mark, at 490.5 ms

This of course is not taking into account factors such as mass, weight, air resistance...so on and so force

http://www.crocodile-clips.com/absorb/A ... 10104.html
Good basic A level physics website with cool interactive stuff

[Dirk_Ermen]

G = 9.81N Using 10N is way to inaccurate. Also you didnt actualy tell me anything about G'forces as in coasters. You just told me that an object falling from a height of 50 metres accelerating at 10(wrong, should be 9.81) ms-2 will give you a resultant speed of 113.84 kmph. And you used such a (r) formula. Why not just use Newtons equations of motion?

i used 10 cause they said that at school. Now i'm mad at the teacher. He is suppost to learn the right thing. Not the wrong thing!
Also i learned that formula @ school so. And that question for newtons equations of motion.
Like i said, i've learned that formula at school.

Keep in mind that most of the stuff you learn at school is half truths and all lies. For example you are told that respiration is:
Glucose + Oxygen = C02 + H20 + Energy, when in fact it is really nothing like that. If the process above occured in your body you would spontaneously combust. If you get some sugar and heat it in an oxygen rich enviroment, you would get a small fire. This would also occur within the body, so everytime you eat a sandwhich, you guts would set on fire. The true fact is that the Glucose is broken down many many times by several different enzymes until it is a stable enough substrate.
Your also told that atoms are made or Protons - Neutrons and Electrons, when it is infact believed by Quantum physicists that atoms are infact made up of 6 different types of Quarks (Up, Down, Strange, Charm, Top, Bottom and as Leptons and Glucons.
Was i also the only one in Chemistry class to see a problem with the Liquid, Solid and Gas models we were given. The models that show the particles are more spread out etc. When i asked what was between the particles in the class the teacher simply looked at me and said nothing...again another lie...if she had just said Quantum foam i would have been happy. However thanks to the internet i manage to find out it was infact quantom foam. The internet can really make a fascinating place to learn all kinds of Science theories and what not...these days i just find myself laughing at people who keep quoting Eienstiens theory of relativity (E=MC2) thinking that they are clever. I think Eienstiens theory of time travelling is however pretty cool. By travelling greater than the speed of light you would in fact be traveling backwards in time, although you'd still be moving forwards at over 299,792,458 meters per second, although that is deemed impossible. You just need to think logically to get your head around it

[Dirk_Ermen]

i posted this to learn how to calculate g's not what is the truth and a lie...

Originally posted by The Edge

these days i just find myself laughing at people who keep quoting Eienstiens theory of relativity (E=MC2) thinking that they are clever. I think Eienstiens theory of time travelling is however pretty cool.

just to clarify, E=mc^2, while directly tied to relativity and Einstein, is not in fact a specific part of either the general or special theories on the subject. I think the equation is a very simple and straightforward explanation to matter<>energy conversions, that's all.

Just remember that schools and textbooks must generalize and oftentimes simplify to teach concepts rather than the absolute "truth" of the matter. To take every little detail of every light cone and ensuing event sequence is too much work and will ultimate end in failure according to our current understanding of quantum mechanics. In other words, take things one step at a time and only do things with the detail required to end up with a resonable answer. Round your long decimals...

For really good explanations of some very interesting physics, I would recommend reading anything by Stephen Hawking, especially A Brief History of Time.

Thanks for the interesting sites on g-forces, dirk. I've never really looked into that branch of physics too deeply.

i posted this to learn how to calculate g's not what is the truth and a lie...

Well its pretty much impossible to calculate the g's on a rollercoaster with are giving knowledge. Theres several huge factors that you need to take into consideration such as weight, several cases of freiction slowing the train, air resistance, rider weights, angels, moments and loads more. Im confident in saying that a very limited amount of people would know how to calculate the g'forces in a ride. Your best bet is to ask DragonsIOA, since he did create SM, and possibly Ole, but like he would ever personaly reply to a user these days

[Dirk_Ermen]

one question still: I have an loop with 10km/u on the top. It seen logical that it actually should have negative g-s...
But out on the calculation will come a little more then 0g out...
How do i let it show negatives...

That forumla only gives the g-force generated by the movment. You need to add cos(a)*G to your final answer to factor in the earths gravitational field, where a is the angle of the car.

[Dirk_Ermen]

cool, thanks tyler. [:)]

EDIT: Don't mind the questions, it's been answered...

this is quite mindboggling to me! anyway, im only twelve, but i have asked My physics teacher how to calculate how much energy a train has on a coaster.

You do something, then something and then something! anyway, it was a year ago, so i cant remember.

[Dirk_Ermen]

Originally posted by coasters 4 me

this is quite mindboggling to me! anyway, im only twelve, but i have asked My physics teacher how to calculate how much energy a train has on a coaster.

You do something, then something and then something! anyway, it was a year ago, so i cant remember.

Check out my site then for a refreshment [;)]
here's a link for the lazy onces around here: http://members.home.nl/ermen.dirk/Websi ... tions.html

EDIT: Big update, showing lots of new calculations that could be usefull [:)]

refreshes some of it, ah wel, just ask physics teacher tomorrow how to find it out!

[Dirk_Ermen]

^^physics teachers do it all wrong, they round off before your done with calculating, they told me that 9.81 was wrong and that 10 was correct. Hello?!?

ok, i though teachers were acuarate. Darn you teachers! they could be giving us false notes?!? LOL.

[coolbeans326]

totally confused, man, totally confused

[Dirk_Ermen]

A new question, how can i calculate the laterals and positive in a Banked turn?

Originally posted by thecool326

totally confused, man, totally confused

That's what you get when you don't understand anything about physics. [:D] It actually very easy, you just need to understand it [:D]

i find it quite confusing to, but i get by it somehow!

Anyway, i have to do work thats a year ahead of me, i am 12, so in school, i am doing work that people at 13 would be doing, a year above me, instead of doing my year work. Its cause i go to a grammar school.

Wow!!! a whole whopping year ahead...decent but not unusual, and it'll probably help you in the long run. I read at a grade 10 level in grade 4 lol. and let's not even talk about how far ahead some people get in math...

these physics things you are talking about aren't very difficult at all, it's just that teachers can't explain these things in a way that everyone will readily understand. it mostly just boils down to a little bit of applied calculus and an open mind.

you'll find hardly anything you are taught early on is actually 100 percent true. anything to the zero power is equal to one, right? nope. the reason they do this is because it is impossible to teach everything at once without getting the student confused. the key to education is taking baby steps so everyone can keep up.

now that I'm off topic, the simplest way to calculate lateral forces on a flat turn would just to run it through a=v^2/r. oh, and I randomly found this site, which is relatively interesting and pretty straightforward (i think...)

the main page:
[url=http://www.vast.org/vip/Amuse.htm]

the cool roller coaster calulation page:
[url=http://www.vast.org/vip/book/DESIGNIN/HOME.HTM]

[Dirk_Ermen]

now that I'm off topic, the simplest way to calculate lateral forces on a flat turn would just to run it through a=v^2/r. oh, and I randomly found this site, which is relatively interesting and pretty straightforward (i think...)

the main page:
http://www.vast.org/vip/Amuse.htm

the cool roller coaster calulation page:
http://www.vast.org/vip/book/DESIGNIN/HOME.HTM

I'm talking about banked turns, that's the only thing i'd still like to know.