2005 Match-up Contest (Round 2) - RESULTS pg20

[Brtnboarder495]

Originally posted by Tyler

What are these ASTM standards your're quoting?

The following measurements are from ASTM amusement ride standards. I can't find any mention of coaster types just yet, but there is a general overview of allowable G-forces.

The "at # sec" means for that amount of time, like "at 2 sec" means a certain level of G's sustained for 2 seconds.

Lateral: Under 1 sec +/- 3.0 G's
At 1.5 sec +/- 2.5 G's
2.0 sec + +/- 2.0 G's

Looks like we have been overly strict on that front. Again, I am not sure how each coaster type relates to these numbers and how they are restricted, but this is raw data.

Airtime: At 0.2 sec -2.0 G's
0.5 to 4.0 sec -1.5 G's
7.0 sec + -1.1 G's

Pretty impressive. However, wooden coasters are capped at -1.3... I couldn't find it in these standards (there may be more standards as well that I haven't found yet) but since PTC said -1.3, we can assume that -1.3 is a cap on wooden coaster airtime.

Now, it starts to get complicated.

The following are G-force rules that apply to transitions from lateral or other positive vertical G's, or less than three seconds of negative vertical G's.
Positive G's: Under 1 sec +6.0 G's
At 1.5 sec +5.0 G's
2.0 to 4.0 sec +4.0 G's
5.0 to 11.8 sec +3.0 G's
12.0 sec + + 2.0 G's

The following are G-force rules that apply to transitions from 3 seconds or more of negative vertical G's
Positive G's: Under 1.5 sec +5.0 G's
At 2.0 sec +4.0 G's
2.5 to 6.0 sec +2.0 G's

So transitions from airtime to vertical G's have to be done carefully.

The maximum allowable G's in a coaster is 6.0 G's by the standards.

The G's get tweaked a bunch (usually lessened) depending on the ride type - wooden coasters have one set of rules, suspended coasters another, looping coasters another.... these have to be found out by asking manufacturers, which I don't have time to do right now. But the standards above are a good starting point.

Quoted directly from: http://coasters2k.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3087

[Dirk_Ermen]

still a small theming question, Are we allowed to theme outside the boarder? I'd want to add some support theming to the ride [:)]

[Brtnboarder495]

Well he did say that if it was not listed in the rules, than chances are it is legal, but you are probably better off waiting for his response. You can use his quote as an argument though and just theme.

Just the track and the station building have to be contained within the borders. Supports and theming can go anywhere you want.

[Dirk_Ermen]

ok, thanks, now i'm sure i don't break a rule [8D]

Yay, thats good news. I can place some stuff outside the template [:D]

For asethetic reasons, can we delete the template lines if we take a screenshot of our final layout showing compliance?

[Brtnboarder495]

Probably.... just keep a copy with the template lines for the competition, and one without them for the exchange and pic.

Originally posted by cjd

Points will be taken off for any yellow vertical g's, and lateral g's of more than 1.7

Why the strict lateral g limit? If this is a contest to build a CCI-like coaster, shouldn't the participants be allowed to have forces as high as real CCIs?

The highest laterals I know of are 1.5, on The Legend. Show me a CCI with higher lateral g's and I'll allow it.

Tyler, keep the boundaries please. You can delete them for posting on other sites, but I need to see the boundaries on your contest entry.

or you could just delete them, save track under different name, take pic, upload original coaster with boundaries.


oh well, im out of today, think it might be this damn allergy stuff[:(!]

[Brtnboarder495]

Right ragan, just like I posted above you...

cjd, are you sure that Legend has 1.5 lateral gs? I doubt that they're that low, considering I've only heard that Legend has very powerful laterals. If you look at the ASTM standards that Brtn posted on the last page, they allow for up to 3 lateral gs. And since CCIs have some of the strongest laterals of any coaster around today, I think its safe to assume that some CCIs must hit about 2.5 lats or so.

I don't know why people base g limits off of the colors they turn in NL. How do NL's g limits deserve any credibility of being correct?

[Brtnboarder495]

Just because they are yellow or red does not mean that they are deadly if they are ever felt on a coaster, but I think that the colors actually represent the average time the G's can be sustained for. Obviously yellow -1.7 verts cant be sustained for as long as green -.1 verts

yeah, actually i think DIJL or Buster or someone made a g force reader that was more realistic. like with its boundraies in green be from 6 to -1.5 verts. +/- 1.5 lats and like 4 to -2 acceleration g. yellow was anthing else that was survivable, then red is dead.

Yes I made it a while ago.

This is it:
sim.vertg.posyellowlimit = 4.7
sim.vertg.posredlimit = 6.7
sim.vertg.negyellowlimit = -0.6
sim.vertg.negredlimit = -1.8
sim.latg.yellowlimit = 0.7
sim.latg.redlimit = 1.8
sim.accg.yellowlimit = 1.6
sim.accg.redlimit = 4.5

anything green would be no problem at all. Something you would see on a B&M for example. yellow is pretty strong force but still within the limits of real rides. red would be too strong.

Buster.
PS: If you are wondering how to use those lines: Make a new texfile, paste these lines and save the file as nolimits.cfg into your main NL-directory.

[Brtnboarder495]

Cool! Thanks man!

That's exactly what the contest restrictions are... lats 1.7 or less.

Ok, getting ready to upload mine.

Isnt it a bit too early???

[Brtnboarder495]

Its never too early, you upload whenever you are ready.

Also, AHG doesnt make things smoother per say. If I build a wooden coaster with turns that have leadins and outs of 2m, the AHG will keep that and trust me, it feels JUST like a wooden coaster. Very sudden movement with g's going from little to alot in an instant.

Obviously though only a handful of people will even be using it...maybe just one...

No, at least 2 While I did do my banking mainly by hand I did use AHG to get evenly spaced control points.

[coolbeans326]

so, the AHG does more than just heartline I take?

Also, AHG doesnt make things smoother per say. If I build a wooden coaster with turns that have leadins and outs of 2m, the AHG will keep that and trust me, it feels JUST like a wooden coaster. Very sudden movement with g's going from little to alot in an instant.

It depends. Tracks that are bumpy won't come out smoother when using the AHG. However, with tracks that have perfectly smooth elements but a jerk when making a transition between them, it will make those nonexistant. I've been building a few coasters using the elementary and purg, and then using the AHG for heartlining and banking, and even though each element I place you can notice the transition into it (besides straight hills), the AHG makes it almost flawless. Thats because when rebuilding your track it's VERY unlikely that it will place a vertex right at the place where your original jerk was.

so, the AHG does more than just heartline I take?

Yes. It banks your track perfectly and heartlines it. Thats if you can use the program correctly, which isn't hard at all once you figure it out.