Handbags At Dawn

Gentlemen (and ladies), we appear to have distinct segregation within the WWS community, caused by a somewhat contraversial member of it, the ever wonderful and always entertaining Tyler (of course). We have seen the senior members of the site, all of whom are very talented designers, scrapping over ratings and tools etc.

I think everyone here has lost sight of what the site is about. We are all here as we share a love for Rollercoasters and the design of them. The site has been created to allow us to share this interest with others all over the world, and as an extension of that, to demonstrate our skills and interests as designers, and build on them using the opinions of others. Fights over whether or not tools have been used go quite against this intention in my opinion.

As we can see, each designer has his own methods. Gouldy is against using elementary etc. while Real shows a positive attitude towards it. Similarly, my friends parents, vicars, refuse evolution while mine, scientists, embrace it. However, they remain the best of friends.

All i'm saying is that i believe everyone is entitled to his own opinion, and provided it causes no harm to anyone (a lower rating on a coaster cannot be counted as "harm"), said opinion should be accepted as valid, whether you agree with it or not. I'm not saying everyone is immature, and i'm sure people will moan at me for this, i'm merely saying that for tyler to want to leave the site is ever-so-slightly rediculous.

I feel that gouldy is entitled to his opinion, and justified, but should reconsider downrating when the tools are openly available for a reason. I also belive that Tyler should calm down and accept that not everyone is going to like everything about every ride he creates (exageration) and take onboard points of critisism, rather than dismissing so many of them as incorrect. Not singling you out man, you're just the most recent example.

I look up to all of you as designers, just thought i'd add my bit. I hope i dont sound like an idiot, and that you've all managed to read this far. Just wanted to voice my opinion.

Amen.

you dont sound like an idiot, everybody should read this, very, very true and as FN said Amen

nice one i agree

[Brtnboarder495]

You do have some good points in there. But I don't know if I would single people out in the future. I kinda feel a NL revolution brewing ...

[Oscar]

I don't care with what you build, I just want to see adrenaline rushing rides no matter how they were built and I have to admit Gouldy makes rides that are better than some designers who use elementary and whatever else exists. Note that I said some.

Did you check his last ride out? He couldn't even ride his own ride in the simulator

[Oscar]

nope but I did get some of his work in progress on messenger and it's sweet and smooth

[hyyyper]

i think he's right, i also think everybody on the site knew it (excep go maybe) and i agree, its about the coaster, not how you built one, and btw tools are there to be used, arent they?

Do we even need to go into this again? Your opinion is respected Carlosio, and your thoughts are well written -- but why repeat what has been said a hundred times in as many ways? The issue at hand however is exactly what you have gracefully re-worded and regurgitated ... ratings are opinions. It is when comments like, "Penis enlarger used so that is -0.5 off the score" that shows idiocy and must be corrected. Stupidity breeds stupidity, and I think we have enough genetic gene splicing here to ensure that stupidity runs rampant for quite sometime into the future. The gene pool has already been peed in, and yet members continue to stir the pot and create more controversy. Geesh, I almost wish tools went back to being a secret practice and no one knew about them or discussed them publicly -- hence rides would be appreciated for face value ... which seems to be difficult to do because, again, stupidity breeds stupidity, right?

I agree that the topic has been touched upon a thousand times, and the only reason i brought it up in such a scale is the recent happenings with poor tyler. I do not feel i have regurgitated anything in that respect. I also agree TC that gouldy's rate in this case could have been taken as offensive, but that isnt the point i made.

As for singling people out, i dont see where i have done so, i have merely stated what we already know as examples.

[gouldy]

Ok, honestly, TConwell, the penis enlargers comment was used very lightheartedly, I did expect that someone would complain that I rated him down for using tools, however I also expected the comment itself to be taken as it was meant, as a joke, and I'm sure that most people did chuckle, I was trying to use the website for what I thought it was made for, a fun time and a bit of a laugh, you really shouldn't take anything I say to heart because most of the time I'm joking and the rest of the time I'm asleep. From now on, I'm not going to rate rides that have been tooled because it just causes too much bother, to me and everyone else. Although why anyone is actually bothered about 0.5 of a mark being taken off is beyond me, its not actually a competition, at least I don't think it is meant to be.

I agree whole heartedly with what Carlosio has to say and I thank him for coming out and saying it. Although I still don't think the comment I made in the rating was offensive, its only offensive if you actually take it seriously, but it wasn't meant seriously.

I guess a few people just need to lighten up a bit, I guess we all have to accept each other more, accept other people views and opinions, I myself am guilty of not doing so, I'm sure TConwell woukld be one of the first to agree with me about that .

Still though, didn't know so many people thought so highly of my coasters, thats made my day [:)]

Yea, we went over the "Rate rides as they are" but theres still that group that wants to push the elitist attitude. One of the many reasons I havent been to CS in like 2 weeks or so. Nor do I plan on going back anytime soon. I think its a lost cause there while I think the people here may (and do) have a shot at coming to some sort of resolution.

Sad too that its a handful of members that essentially rips a community in two. I absolutly dont see a problem with rating a ride and forming a opinion of a ride that is about the ride, its adrenaline and well its built. Not how it was built.

That allows for opinions that otherwise should be kept to ones self. Because if its right to take off for use of one thing, its also right to take off for not using. Its gotta be a two way street for it to be fair.

I don't downrate for using tools, I just don't use them myself. You're right about CS.com, Real. Some of the "superior" members wouldn't know a good coaster if it bit them in the butt. Ride Op gave my gold medal coaster, Cataclysm, a 6.25 just because it follows the gridlines. Some of the gold pass guests really need a reality check. They have rated way too many coasters, to the point that I think thay have stopped enjoying them. There are some bad rates here, but nowhere near the volume.

Carlosio: Here, Here!
Gouldy:
Real: I still feel the pain of "my new computer" thread ... sigh
CJD: "Gold Pass" ... about as valuable as a blank piece of paper

CJD...I would agree however, following the grid lines produces a very static coaster with very little dynamic quality. You are reduced to inversions and turns which are 180 or 90 degrees. Even breaking it up with 45's helps a ton, makes it feel more dynamic.


Personally, who needs to lighten up? I think it goes both ways. Gouldy, yes directed at you, You have great designs. However, I think you take it too seriously for even deducting for use of tools. Just like those who blow up over those ratings are too serious.

I think if the members who did downrate for tools understood that its not a good concept and not only stopped, but understood and accepted tools arent the magic wand, I think wed see a drop in the seriousness of everyone else as well.

Why? Because there would then be less focus on how the ride was made and more on what the ride delivers.


Personally, I wouldnt want those who downrate on tools to download my rides. To me, if its that serious that you have to deduct, ANY points, you are taking it too seriously and shouldnt ride anything I create. Id rather you not waste your time.

[Kev]

The best thing about Gouldy's coasters are the kick ass screenshots, particularly his older coasters. j/k Gouldy. You know from my rates that I think your coasters are great.

[Oscar]

A solution tot his would be an option for the uploader to have the option to make his track rateable or commentable only.

[hyyyper]

yeah, that would be nice, especially when u r uploading beta's

[coolbeans326]

yeah, and then you can decide if you want to be in the weekly competition, or not, would be cool!

[Brtnboarder495]

I agree that coasters that follow the grid lines are more boring than one's that dont, but it is hard not to. Seeing as you can only build in the top, right, left, front, back and 3d views it limits the way you build the coaster. Without using any tools I find it very difficult to do, because if you try to manipulate a node it just moves in two directions instead of the one direction you wanted it to move it. I hope in NL2 that you can somehow "edit" the grid lines or create imaginary grid lines to build at a 30 degree angle.

Well, I just use tools myself, so building on any angle is just as easy as building along one of the grid lines.

But all you have to do to make a track that doesn't follow the grid lines is save your track as an element, then re-insert it at an angle where the track you want to build is on a gridline. Then just keep repeating the process.

[gouldy]

Building at say ........ 23 degrees off the grid lines is just as easy as building exactly on the grid line, just use the 3d view, its a piece of piss. Just put the node roughly where you want it on the top down view, then move it to the right height and roughly the right angle using one of the side or front views, then go on the 3d view and just move it till its right, it takes 2 seconds, piece of piss, plus stops all this wasting time with tools, why bother when it is actually a piece of piss to do it without them? Ahwell, it doesn't matter to me because like I said before, I'm not going to rate any coasters that have been tooled ever again because of the problems it causes.

If you do it that way though, the track won't be aligned straight. And it will take forever to get the shape you want.

[coolbeans326]

No, I like to angle it through side view, 3d, and top, it would be nice if they had an "align tool" where you can highlight your track pieces and have them align the same path, ect.