Thank-you all - Bockzilla

[bockzilla]

It is a very sad day for me. I will no longer be uploading coasters.

Why you may ask...or not even care.

Well there are many reasons and my last uploaded coaster I think proves part of it. It has been up for almost a week with 140+ downloads and no real comments on the ride. Also if you look at most of my rides uploaded you can see it is a problem that has gotten worse over the years. I know that I am guilty of the same thing about not commenting on rides I have download as well as many of us are. I have no solution or suggestion to solve this problem either. I personally have never really been concerned with the rates as much as the comments/feedback.

I have also noticed that many of us who have been around the block here for a long time have stopped uploading coasters and talk less in the forums as well. Is this because of boredom with the site, boredom with designing coasters in general, that fact that it is taking so long for the next version of NoLimits to come out, because we have grown up or have real lives to live? I do not know the answer to that question either. I have made many friends here on this site and will not be leaving but becoming a ??????Lurker?????? who occasionally may download a coaster or reply in a topic. I find this very ironic in my case since I have more time to design coasters and be active on this site since I am currently unemployed (for the last 6 months) and it is looking like no real prospects are coming in the near future.

I have tried as many others have to give good advice to newbies here and impart our wisdom and experience, such as it is, to brick walls. It is sad when people ignore good advice from others who are just trying to help them unlock their potential and become the good designers. I guess this is part of the ME, MYSELF and I society that we have become.

I know that Oscar has put a life time of effort and energy in to making this site what it was, is and will become and I will be forever grateful for his friendship. I am also grateful for the new friendships I have now because of this site as well. It is funny to look back and see all the sites that have come and gone over the years and Coaster Crazy (y'all remember the old site name) is still here. I feel that is because of the way this site has been run and the community it has inspired.

I wish all of you the best in life.
Bockzilla

Well, shucks. Sorry to hear you're letting yourself get so down about this situation, man. Your designs have always been so fun to download, inside and out. I know it's not the end of your designing career here, but I hate to see you talk about it as though it is.

I notice many people making these comments and having notions surrounding the idea that this site is dying/dead; the community is non-responsive; ratings/comments are non-existent; people don't "care" anymore;
I myself just don't see it as harshly as the authors of such comments do. Sure, rating and activity is not as boisterous as it once was, but that isn't to say it won't return to that level at some point in the future. Who's to say that website activity doesn't make fluctuations similar to economic cycles? It flourishes and prospers - it takes a break - it prospers - break. Idk I guess that's just why I don't consider the relative inactivity to be a problem.

For me, I don't care about rates or comments. Even without them, we all continue to find ways to make a better track the next time. I really just care about downloads- that enough people see my ride.

I know you, bockzilla, hardly utilize the hard hat area or the track advertising area. But for years I've noticed a strict correlation between how heavily you advertise or post progress photos/info of your track before you release it and how many downloads your ride receives after you release it. I think if you tried spurring more interest in your projects as you create them, or as you finish them up in the last few weeks before releasing, you would receive more downloads, and since your progress threads would start to develop expectations within members, people would be more apt to commenting and rating. Give it a try!



I hope you'll stick around. It truly is the attitude that you portray in this post that eventually causes/caused these active/once active members in the community to disappear.

Do you want one line of advice from me, for the motivation? The incentive? Just stick around, bud. It all depends on how you look at it:
A) This community faces a slippery slope downward. Nothing will change, except that it will only continue to lose activity. And that actually results in my loss of interest in continuing to be active (ironic if you really dwell on it)

B) I think the community may boom back one day; maybe sooner than I think. Just gotta hold out for it with no worries. Perhaps I don't want to upload as much as I used to, or maybe I should change my game a little. Oh well, things change, and I fit well in this community so I suppose patience is a virtue after all [approve]

Pretty much the same reason why I don't design anymore. It's really hard to spend so much time working on something only to have it ignored. And let's face it, with so much focus on the nitpicky little details of realism recently, it takes a LOT of effort to make a good coaster nowadays, and this effort is often all for naught.

So, yeah, I see where you're coming from, and I'm pretty much in the same boat.

You know, part of the problem may be that No Limits is now ELEVEN years old. When it first came out in 2001, it looked like the most amazing thing in the world, and every single aspiring coaster-designer just had to have it, and had to try out everything that it had to offer. But now it's actually getting to the point that it's quite an old game. A lot of the luster has faded from it, and we're just not getting the same influx of enthusiasm that we did at the program's inception. I'm frankly amazed that it has survived as long as it has.

[hyyyper]

I can totally relate to what Bockzilla says.

The amount of roller coasters I complete has diminished drastically. The last ride I finished was Katun, which is over a year old and I was only able to complete that ride because I thought it deserved a recreation.

The ride before that, Neon Jungle, was completed because it was built for a contest. So the last ride I managed to finished on my own power was Cthulhu, which is almost two years old.

And it's not just me. From all the legendary and innovative designers that I knew from 2005-2009(ish) only a few a left and even fewer upload tracks.

I also sense that the community has changed a lot. In the good old days, innovation was praised. As long as your ride was supported properly and not deadly, you got props from everybody for that new kick-ass inversion or terrain interaction.

This is no longer the case. It seems that a coaster needs to follow the specific builder style of the train/track combo you select. Otherwise you won't get over a 5 or 6. Trying out a new support style? No points. Inversions on a woodie? Most unrealstic coaster ever. Although that last one is about to change because of the innovations of RMC and TGG.

I don't know if everybody left because of this change in attitude or the other way around, but things have changed for sure. Perhaps it has something to do with the real world as well. From halfway in the 90ties and the decade after that, the roller coasters got bigger, longer and more powerful each year.

Now, the speed and height limit are almost reached and the economy is not so good either. This requires the parks and builders to redirect their innovations towards new ride experiences instead of building their rides bigger and faster. There is a notable increase in train and coaster styles (10 across dive machines, Wing riders, Semi floor less). And since the NoLimits team is focused on NL2 rather than these new styles, the current NoLimits users are at a standstill. A lot have quit and left.

For me, I was probably keep playing NoLimits for a long time. It's still my goal to become a roller coaster engineer and making coasters is more like a hobby than a game to me. I'm also committed to this site, trying to provide a community for those who like to build roller coasters.

[gouldy]

Everyone has become a little lackadaisical about NL in the community as a whole, it's not just here on CoasterCrazy. There are numerous reasons why I think this is, which I won't bother droning on about

I still personally design using NoLimits and enjoy doing it - I often never attempt to finish off the rides to the same kind of quality that I'd hope to acheive on a coaster I upload, because it takes a lot of work to get to that kind of stage. So over the last 5 years or so, basically nothing I've built has made it on to the exchange - because it's not anything like the standard that people "expect" on the exchange now.

I think most of the "old guard", as it were, are in the same boat as you, Bockzilla. My enthusiasm for roller coasters is unchanged from when I joined the site, but of course, life as an adult is not quite a simple as life as a young teenager; other, more important things now come before NoLimits for most of us as the community ages. As such, enthusiasm for it has dwindled.

However, Gerst makes a very good point about utilizing the Hard Hat Area to drum up interest in your rides; maybe try that before giving up the NL community as a whole, you may be surprised. Although I wouldn't blame you for doubting that

tl;dr everywhere. interesting topics usually get up to 200 or so views and can still not have any posts. i think a lot of us are just waiting for nl2, hopefully.

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by RideWarriorNation

tl;dr everywhere. interesting topics usually get up to 200 or so views and can still not have any posts. i think a lot of us are just waiting for nl2, hopefully.

If you can't bring up the respect to first read what this topic is about, then don't comment.

[bockzilla]

Thank you for the kind words of encouragement. I am not so much down as disappointed. Sorry if it has come off that way.

I have never complained about the comments or rates I received good or bad although others here have on my behalf. I appreciated all the feedback that was given because I know how much time it takes to review a coaster and put those feelings down for all to see. I also understand that many may feel that they have nothing to say because they feel that this person is a good designer what would I have to say to them. I would say that everyone, no matter how good or bad they are likes to hear from anyone. I will continue to design coasters in NL for a very long time no matter how old it gets. I love being creative and designing them for my own pleasure. I started with Disney?????????s Coaster and loved every minute of it even as primitive as it seems now. Every once in a while I still load the game up to play it.

Trust me when I say I will most likely be the last one here if CC ever does shutdown with the exception of Oscar. I still am here almost every day seeing what is going on. I have had many good laughs and conversations and always find it entertaining.

I have been a coaster/amusement park enthusiast since my parents first took me to Cedar Point & Geauga Lake since I was 5 and riding my first coaster, Blue Streak at 7. I cannot imagine a day when I can no longer ride a coaster or build one in a game.

As to advertising my designs?????????I never chose to do that because I really never felt that anything I did was that special to deserve it. I always felt that the ride would speak for itself when downloaded by others. If they liked it fine, if not that was fine too, just let me know what you thought about it. I built the ride for me first and decide to share it with others for their enjoyment too. This is not to say that I will never upload again but that it may be a long time before it ever happens again.

I too have to agree that people are getting a bit nit-picky about rides conforming to manufacture?????????s styles. It has created an atmosphere of unimaginative designs that no longer break the mold. Who is to say that in the future a manufacturer will not do something out of the norm of what they have done in the past.

I understand the ebb and flow of web sites, games and life in general. What is hot today will not be tomorrow but that will not stop me from enjoying that things I like to do. The human imagination is never satisfied with what is here and now but always looking for what could be!

So this is not a good bye but just a thank you to all who have taken the time to express how they felt about my designs. Hopefully this may spark a bit of interest in the site and perk up activity. There is always hope!

[Oscar]

[:)] and [:(]

Sad to hear that. When I came to CC you were one of my fav designers and I always admired what you've done. Farewell, bockzilla!

I don't post rides anymore for the same reason. No one comments or rates, what is the point?

Hopefully NL2 re energizes this community because it used to be epic.

Don't go. We need you!

Originally posted by Jakizle

I don't post rides anymore for the same reason. No one comments or rates, what is the point?

What are you talking about? When was the last time you uploaded a ride that didn't have a comment? Lol

The point is that you want to do it, and if you don't upload rides because you don't get comments then you shouldn't upload at all.

[Turbo]

Originally posted by Live on earths ass

... Farewell, bockzilla!

Originally posted by gforce1994

Don't go. We need you!

Did you guys read any of the posts?

Originally posted by bockzilla

... this is not a good bye but just a thank you ...

As for my thoughts on all of this:
I can most definitely see where you are coming from. all I can really say is that I do hope that NL2 sparks the community back up to it's former glory. when I joined, the community on what was wee wee slap was booming. I wish it was still like that today, but it simply is not. I used to be really active in the forums, but I now only respond and rate far less than I should, so I am by no means a role model here haha.

[mkingy]

Hyyyper if you're designing rides purely for rates and to try and get 10's (not harm in that) then yeah, I guess you're suffering as the community has become very technical minded. But yet Bockzilla's own Saphire was shaped barely like a B&M and still got high rates.

This whole rating activity complaining is getting kinda tiresome when as you say your not doing anything about it yourself.

Not to single you out Bockzilla but I gave you a rate with positive and negative comments on how I thought yo could maybe improve on what I thought was a fantastic rate.

Here's the kicker though: you didn't even bother to thank me for taking the time to rate. Let alone consider rating one of my tracks (one that I had uploaded on the same day as you hah). As far as I'm aware you probably haven't even read my comments?

originally by hyyper
Now, the speed and height limit are almost reached and the economy is not so good either. This requires the parks and builders to redirect their innovations towards new ride experiences instead of building their rides bigger and faster. There is a notable increase in train and coaster styles (10 across dive machines, Wing riders, Semi floor less). And since the NoLimits team is focused on NL2 rather than these new styles, the current NoLimits users are at a standstill. A lot have quit and left.

I do agree with this point however

This whole rating activity complaining is getting kinda tiresome.

Agreeeed.

Here's the kicker though: you didn't even bother to thank me for taking the time to rate. Let alone consider rating one of my tracks (one that I had uploaded on the same day as you hah).

Well you weren't supposed to rate his ride then anyway! [:P]

[mkingy]

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy

This whole rating activity complaining is getting kinda tiresome.

Agreeeed.

Here's the kicker though: you didn't even bother to thank me for taking the time to rate. Let alone consider rating one of my tracks (one that I had uploaded on the same day as you hah).

Well you weren't supposed to rate his ride then anyway! [:P]

:P

I think this was after the rule change was implemented

[bockzilla]

Originally posted by mkingy
...
Not to single you out Bockzilla but I gave you a rate with positive and negative comments on how I thought you could maybe improve on what I thought was a fantastic rate.

Here's the kicker though: you didn't even bother to thank me for taking the time to rate. Let alone consider rating one of my tracks (one that I had uploaded on the same day as you hah). As far as I'm aware you probably haven't even read my comments?
...

I am guilty as charged of the same thing. I do not nor have I ever denied the fact that I do not rate/comment as much as I should and I know that I am just as much a part of the problem. I am sorry that I did not take the time to rate your ride as well. Although I know the rules have changed and we are now allowed to rate rides in the same week, I still personally feel that it is not and choose not to do so. This is not an excuse but an apology to you personally as I should have commented on it later on but I forgot to do so.

I have always thanked everyone for comments, even you, if you read the bottom of all my coasters I upload I state the following:


And as always -- I appreciate any constructive comments (good or bad) as they will help me design/recreate better coasters. Enjoy your ride on [insert coaster name here]!


Yes I know this is kind of a generic Thank you but it is there.

I do read all of the comments on my rides. I even go back and look at rides I have posted years ago to see if anyone has commented on them recently. As to your comments?????????I did read them. I did not mind your comments about not being shaped like a B&M coaster or that you felt the second have was long and boring toward the end. I understood where you were coming from, you explained your reasons and you gave it a proper review. I was just making an observation that some people get way to nit-picky about a ride conforming to a manufacturer and not allowing any creativity on design. You did and do allow for this in your reviews. I respect you and thank you for that. I received similar comments on my Broken Arrow coaster about not being very arrow like but they explained why and gave it a proper review just as you did.

I am not complaining as much as making a statement/observation of what has happed over the years and saying thank you to all who have taken the time to comment on my rides over the years

This post was a personal decision that I felt I needed to let everyone here know why I will not be uploading that much anymore and not have me just ?????????drop off the end of the Earth.????????? I feel that everyone here deserved to know that.

P/S I am sorry for being so long winded in my replies but i feel that everyone here deserves a proper and respectful answer.

[Oscar]

Maybe we should get back to doing the weekly awards. We need another staff member, any volunteers? [:p]

[bockzilla]

Not to be off topic but...

Before I answer that question...I have a question or two of my own:
How far back would I have to go to catch up on the weekly awards?
Does anyone have a spreadsheet of past winners and such?
May I discuss with you and other staff about the idea for the monthly/annual winner as well?

Not that I am specifically volunteering, asking to be involuntary recruited and/or hijacked into to it. There might be a very small chance that I may be convinced to do it.

[hyyyper]

continuing off-topic
I think we need to rethink the whole awards thing. Perhaps we can let members nominate really cool rides that have been uploaded for some kind of monthly awards. And then let users vote instead of rating, since that are so few raters around.

[bockzilla]

Originally posted by hyyyper

continuing off-topic
I think we need to rethink the whole awards thing. Perhaps we can let members nominate really cool rides that have been uploaded for some kind of monthly awards. And then let users vote instead of rating, since that are so few raters around.

Your stealing my idea LOL. That is what I was thinking. On sunday the following week put up a poll for the best coaster for the previous week with a few days of voting. Then when the month ends a poll of the top weekly winners for the month winner and then an annual poll for coaster of the year from the monthly winners. That way people who do not like to rate or comment may just vote instead.

[Oscar]

Originally posted by bockzilla

Not to be off topic but...

Before I answer that question...I have a question or two of my own:
How far back would I have to go to catch up on the weekly awards?
Does anyone have a spreadsheet of past winners and such?
May I discuss with you and other staff about the idea for the monthly/annual winner as well?

Not that I am specifically volunteering, asking to be involuntary recruited and/or hijacked into to it. There might be a very small chance that I may be convinced to do it.

Just did a check and you'd go back 25 weeks (May 25, 2012). Not all weeks had qualifying tracks. Our mod page shows up per week the tracks that had the min number of ratings to qualify. Some weeks there's no tracks. There's no spreadsheet of past winners. I think cjd was keeping tally long ago, he probably stopped keeping talley after we stopping doing the award lol. You may discuss the idea of monthly / yearly winner. It's coded in and we used to do it before, idk how far back that's been [:(] Thanks for volunteering [:)]

[mkingy]

It wasn't meant as a personal attack on you Bockzilla, so I hope that you didn't feel like I was picking on your individual habits, more of a general overarching statement on what the vast majority of this site seem to behave like.

Personally I'd like to see the cool designs page updated more often and maybe bi-weekly awards to increase the amount of entries & competition. I could potentially help out during the week, although my time is generally limited at the weekends.

I'd also like to poll opinions on a rating template of sorts, just so we can help people feel more confident with rating? I'll put that in another topic Monday morning when I'm back home though.