The RLR Giga Project

Been very excited with a few 2012 coasters and a little curious of B&Ms new style. So I thought I'd give a giga a bash and try and make something work!

I'm limiting myself to not go crazy with the physical length of the ride, as Leviathan already pushes the limits and will be the longest B&M ever made. But trying to get a good, original, speed filled, interesting layout..with out being unrealistic is prooving a little difficult... So I've turned to Leviathan's 2012 twin Shambhala to nick a little element.

I still have the rest of the layout to finish but I'll post progress here and feel free to add suggestions. I still need to figure out how to do the giga-lift-spine but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Now to screens.

Ignore.

For the spine you could just delete everything except for the track, bring the track into CK and thicken the spine. you could also make a lift railing in OC and import into CK if you really want to complete the Leviathan look.

I almost think you should take the entire layout and mirror it, as well as change up the colors to shake the Leviathan clone vibe (unless that's what you're going for). An i305-esque second half finishing with a few quick bunny hops, perhaps under the lift or 'barrel roll' and interacting with those supports would be cool. Or, a splashdown, or tunnel.

As it stands the layout is very 'cut and paste', if you will, but your rides are always very well-made and I'm sure this will end up phenomenal.

I feel like the turnaround is on too large of scale to look any good...perhaps include it later in the layout when it can be smaller and less disproportionate, and replace your current one with a simple (or complex...whichever) hammerhead? The rest of it looks great, though. Looking forward to it!

[yoshifreak]

Although the shaping looks great and it does look exciting, the lack of low elements doesn't distinguish it as a B&M giga. In fact had you not said it was a giga there's really nothing other than the turn at the beginning that makes it stand out from a B&M hyper. Maybe add a low element somewhere before the hammerhead? Also from a realistic standpoint, four high-elements to start the ride would result in an absolutely astronomical price. There's nothing to bleed off speed, so unless the rest of the ride stays low, you're looking at a 30 Million + ride.

^ Yeah was thinking this looking at it actually. That second camelback's gonna get scrapped for something lower I'm thinking.

You can't say that B&M gigas have low elements when theres only 1 in existance, Perhaps they designed it like that to make it different than Behemoth. Personaly I like the big camel back,,, I would like to see an air-time hill break 200ft.

^Everyone forgets about Steel Dragon 2000. Its first airtime hill is 252', it also has a third hill @ 210'. On a B&M, Shambhala's first hill is likely *very* close to 200'.

I like the layout as it stands, but I do think at a minimum it should switch up after the second camel. How tall is this giga?

Originally posted by yoshifreak

Although the shaping looks great and it does look exciting, the lack of low elements doesn't distinguish it as a B&M giga. In fact had you not said it was a giga there's really nothing other than the turn at the beginning that makes it stand out from a B&M hyper. Maybe add a low element somewhere before the hammerhead?

Do you understand the difference between a B&M Giga and a B&M Hyper?...

Giga = 300 ft. + in max. height (300 ft. - 399 ft. technically)
Hyper= 200 ft. + in max. height (200 ft. - 299 ft. technically

It has absolutely nothing to do with the layout elements and how low to the ground they are.

Also from a realistic standpoint, four high-elements to start the ride would result in an absolutely astronomical price. There's nothing to bleed off speed, so unless the rest of the ride stays low, you're looking at a 30 Million + ride.

And so what's the problem? To acquire a very substantial and breathtaking ride, you're gonna have to empty out the pockets lol...

B&M Gigas do not have to have low elements, they can have what ever they want; and it's funny that you are already stereotyping a coaster type that is not even open yet

I like the idea of the turnaround element, but does it flow very well? I think that (in terms of pacing) after a fast turn and a slower air hill, a slow turnaround would hinder (pacing). If that is the case I'd tell you to lower the height and increase the radius of the helix section.

The lead out of the helix section as you have it now looks badass, by the way. How does it feel to come out at such a steep angle?

I think its fine how it is. The current B&M giga sample size is just too small. People could have said that Intamin giga's don't have quick transitions after Millennium Force. However, Intamin went in a totally different direction with I:305. Whose to say B&M won't do the same with their next giga.

[yoshifreak]

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy

Do you understand the difference between a B&M Giga and a B&M Hyper?...

Giga = 300 ft. + in max. height (300 ft. - 399 ft. technically)
Hyper= 200 ft. + in max. height (200 ft. - 299 ft. technically

It has absolutely nothing to do with the layout elements and how low to the ground they are.

Technically you're right, but there's no denying the fact the Leviathan is unique compared to ALL B&M hypers we've seen to date. For whatever reason it contains those low elements, they're an integral part of the ride, and not including them doesn't represent the current style B&M is attending to. He specifically mentioned that he's basing the ride off of their new style, so why sequence it similarly to an old B&M hyper when it's a new B&M giga? Even if he was going for a larger version of Shambala, it still doesn't follow the style.



Park made model showing a similar low style element very early in the ride's sequence. Also, one of the benefits to any giga coaster is the enhanced feeling of speed, which his current layout takes almost no advantage of.

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy

And so what's the problem? To acquire a very substantial and breathtaking ride, you're gonna have to empty out the pockets lol...

Return on Investment.

B&Ms are not cheap, and at the pace that this ride is going I doubt it'd be anything near the $30 million mark that I suggested. Leviathan cost $28 million while having only two elements other than the lift reach over 150' and with a total length of ~5500'. Obviously I don't have the statistics on bob's ride, but based on what I can see so far, the ride absolutely dwarfs Leviathan in terms of height and length. People already complain about Leviathan ending too early, an issue in which overall cost most likely played a huge factor. If he wants to avoid people saying the same thing about his ride yet still maintain a realistic cost profile, he should make some attempts to maximize the ratio of length to cost. The simplest way to do this is stay low.

Originally posted by raptorTC

I think its fine how it is. The current B&M giga sample size is just too small. People could have said that Intamin giga's don't have quick transitions after Millennium Force. However, Intamin went in a totally different direction with I:305. Whose to say B&M won't do the same with their next giga.

You do realize that those two coasters were designed nearly ten years apart right? Intamin's body of work over the course of those years shows where the differences between to two evolved.

He specifically mentioned that he's basing the ride off of their new style, so why sequence it similarly to an old B&M hyper when it's a new B&M giga?

Because it's the only B&M Giga... and making a B&M above 300 feet is enough to base it off its style, lol.

Even if he was going for a larger version of Shambala, it still doesn't follow the style.

It's his ride, not yours.

B&Ms are not cheap, and at the pace that this ride is going I doubt it'd be anything near the $30 million mark that I suggested. Leviathan cost $28 million while having only two elements other than the lift reach over 150' and with a total length of ~5500'....

BLAH BLAH BLAH

....The simplest way to do this is stay low.

Just because it's a couple million dollars above "today's" standards doesn't make it an unrealistic roller coaster dude.

You have any idea how cheap roller coasters were in the old days?
They only get more and more expensive- in that sense, he is following realistic roller coaster industry trends.

I don't think we can nail down B&M's styling of their Giga's to one ride. Especially considering what they did with their wing-riders. The first one they built had a straight drop. Then second one had a dive loop as the first drop. They went in two completely different directions with those rides. Wild Eagle even has a loop and corkscrew on it. Non of that is consistent with their first design but that doesn't mean it isn't in the same class. They could very well do something completely different with their next Giga.

[yoshifreak]

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy


Because it's the only B&M Giga... and making a B&M above 300 feet is enough to base it off its style, lol.

So if he includes a dive loop does it still follow the style because the lift is 300'?

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy


It's his ride, not yours.

You're right. He asked for suggestions, I provided my input. He's free to analyze my opinions and decide whether or not to incorporate them. It's not like I have a knife to his throat forcing him to follow my design strategies, so stop acting like I do.

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy



You have any idea how cheap roller coasters were in the old days?
They only get more and more expensive- in that sense, he is following realistic roller coaster industry trends.

True, but there is a point where the revenue that parks make won't cover such an investment. Do I know for sure that this is that point? No of course not, but I still feel it's something he should consider. Once again, if he chooses to incorporate that into his design, that's his choice.

That heap called Hollywood Rip, Ride, Rockit cost a reported $45 million USD (I've yet to wrap my head around that one). The cost of Steel Dragon 2000 was $52 million USD because of its substantial earthquake-proof supports, accounting for a decade of inflation that's equivalent to $65M in 2010.

It's certainly feasible that in the future a park could spend $30-40M or more on a very large B&M or Intamin giga.

On a side note, yes B&Ms are not cheap...but neither are Intamins. Intimidator 305 opened in 2010 at a cost of $25M and the entire coaster was smartly engineered to be cost-saving with the arch lift supports, a newly designed track system minimizing steel consumption, and a layout staying very near ground level after the first 150' airtime hill. Also, do you think Intamin retracked that first turn pro bono?

Comparatively, Leviathan's cost of $28M, given that it features many more high elements than I:305 and a longer course, is not unreasonable.

I don't think it's really that important, yoshifreak. You at least have reason and support for the things that you've said about the ride, I understand what you are trying to portray.

But I don't think he wants a ride with all of the same elements as Leviathan tweaked a little bit. Perhaps he will utilized some of them, but there's just no need to black-and-white the style so strictly.

[yoshifreak]

^^Although I'm not sure on Nagashima, the reason such a large investment was able to be placed at Universal Orlando is because they actually make enough money to do so.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/200 ... heme-parks

vs.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/apps/pbc ... /902129967

Universal Orlando alone in 2007 pulled in $92 Million dollars in profit, whereas the entire lot of Cedar Fair parks pulled in a bit over $5 Million in profit over relatively the same period(2008, they actually posted a net loss in '07). The situation has improved a fair amount since then, but it's still a stretch realistically for that large of an investment to occur.

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy

I don't think it's really that important, yoshifreak. You at least have reason and support for the things that you've said about the ride, I understand what you are trying to portray.

But I don't think he wants a ride with all of the same elements as Leviathan tweaked a little bit. Perhaps he will utilized some of them, but there's just no need to black-and-white the style so strictly.

What I'm trying to say is that there is just as much room for originality with low style elements as there is with higher elements. He needs to find a mix of both since he did say he wanted to avoid going overboard, which I feel is happening in his current design. I agree with you in that he shouldn't follow it black and white, but I feel he should consider it as a frame of reference.

I just don't understand the point of bringing cost into this, its not like its an important aspect of the simulator, infact I think that cost has no effect, because the purpose of the game is to make your fantasy coaster in a sense

Yeah I'm all for following a style, but I agree that there's only so much of a style to go on right now. I think some people are looking a bit too hard at the one B&M giga in existance. I saw some good reasoning here; the different first drops on the Wing Riders, the cost of rides like Steel Dragon 2000, among others. Also check out how different Apollo's Chariot and Raging Bull were when they opened. Had Apollo been the only B&M hyper at the time, and someone designed Raging Bull in NL, would you all who are preaching complete coherence to "style" be taking off points?

Also, who's to say bob 3 doesn't want his ride set in Dubai, or somewhere else that may have or will have had a lot of money? Yes it would be a very expensive ride, but I think everything he's done is reasonable.

I like it, and I don't think you should change it for silly arguments that it's outside the style of 1 coaster. If you ask me, you have about 12 B&M coasters of this style from which to draw influence.

Jeez, who's ride is he building? I'm all for suggestions but he did not make a thread titled "Everybody tell me what would be a cool B&M giga design!!". It is, after all, very early in the building process..

I like it so far man! The turnaround, to me at least, looks awesome at that size. Going to be interesting to see where you go with it for sure, especially from this point on where there will be tonsssss of room for the originality you're looking for.

Originally posted by yoshifreak


What I'm trying to say is that there is just as much room for originality with low style elements as there is with higher elements. He needs to find a mix of both

Seriously? He needs to? According to you.

Just don't bother downloading the ride if it's gone so ''overboard'' for you- even though you know just as well as all of us that bob_3's rides are always worth downloading. I think it looks f***ing awesome so far.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy
Do you understand the difference between a B&M Giga and a B&M Hyper?...

Giga = 300 ft. + in max. height (300 ft. - 399 ft. technically)
Hyper= 200 ft. + in max. height (200 ft. - 299 ft. technically

It has absolutely nothing to do with the layout elements and how low to the ground they are.

It's in Spain, why would that matter?

So is your derpyness from the whole trying really hard to be black in a sheltered suburban environment or is the derpyness creating the trying to be black thing?