Yet another compromise in California

Originally posted by gouldy

Otherwise I'm just going to start a religion where one of the main rules is that I have to kill a Muslim everyday, or I go to hell.

It's called a sacrafice [:D]

such things as just cults, you know. As in ones that don't involve killing people of other religions

[gouldy]

Originally posted by Mad-man 5

As in ones that don't involve killing people of other religions

The opposite of Islam, then?

As bad as all religions are, at least most other religions are fairly civil, but Islam, wow...

Originally posted by Oscar

Originally posted by TConwell


...
Oh good grief Slo ... nobody really wants Sarah. She's just tossed out there to make Obama nervous. Seriously, she has about as much chance of winning the Presidency as I do of becoming Chancellor of La La Land.

lol, a lot of people think you have a very good shot at becoming or already are Chancellor of La La Land!

I try not to read my own press ...

Have you seen and heard the vile comments that came out of the protesters mouths...their placards, their body language? These people don't want to be Americans, they brandished their buzzard flags with pride, while they turn the US flag upside down and spit on it...they want to get their way, to continue living here without any responsibility or having to make any sacrifices. They want what Americans have worked for, but these people wanted it handed to them simply because they are already here. Will it change how out-of-work Americans will regard them? This country?????????s prominence is based on laws and lofty principles, and bottom-line, these people are anarchic, con artists who wantonly take everything, yet give nothing in return. Do we need to yield to their demands...I think not.

Why not, Allen? Why shouldn't you and I pull out our wallets and just give random people money (especially those sans a green card) because they are here? I mean, aren't they entitled to some of our income and wealth? Our now President ran on the platform of "spreading the wealth around" and feels that it should be that way. Remember?

Funny thing though, I don't remember him stopping by my city (the capital of Alabama -- which is only one of 50 we have in this nation) to tout his reform ... especially since my state is now sitting at a comfortable 10.9% unemployed today.

"Spreading the wealth around" in regards to middle class tax breaks and rolling back the Bush tax cuts, nothing to do with illegal immigration or giving illegal aliens who don't work (most of them do work) any kind of benefits. Come on now.

[Oscar]

tconwell, Give me your money! Now!!!!!!!!!!! There's the big PayPal button at the bottom of this page! [:D]

Originally posted by TConwell

Why not, Allen? Why shouldn't you and I pull out our wallets and just give random people money (especially those sans a green card) because they are here? I mean, aren't they entitled to some of our income and wealth? Our now President ran on the platform of "spreading the wealth around" and feels that it should be that way. Remember?

Funny thing though, I don't remember him stopping by my city (the capital of Alabama -- which is only one of 50 we have in this nation) to tout his reform ... especially since my state is now sitting at a comfortable 10.9% unemployed today.

Americans do spread the wealth every day . In the form of welfare,food stamps,foreign aid just to quote a couple . The wealth sharing effects most of the world . Obama is following Bill Clinton's foot steps,the same foot steps that has created a housing bubble burst, the falling apart of SS,and the out sourcing of millions of jobs .Obama now has created a bubble (that in the future ) will burst and cause massive head aches. It's called Obamacare .

I have nothing against helping people,if in return it helps someone else latter . But how are illegal immigrants by giving them what they want,help you .

Originally posted by Freddie

"Spreading the wealth around" in regards to middle class tax breaks and rolling back the Bush tax cuts, nothing to do with illegal immigration or giving illegal aliens who don't work (most of them do work) any kind of benefits. Come on now.

I agree !

Originally posted by Oscar

tconwell, Give me your money! Now!!!!!!!!!!! There's the big PayPal button at the bottom of this page! [:D]

You kinda sound like Obama .

[jayman]

obama is t conwell's boss!

[Oscar]

Originally posted by allen

You kinda sound like Obama .

You could say I am like him, after all, I am President of CoasterCrazy.com [:D]

Jayman ... only for another 81 days.

Originally posted by Freddie

"Spreading the wealth around" in regards to middle class tax breaks and rolling back the Bush tax cuts, nothing to do with illegal immigration or giving illegal aliens who don't work (most of them do work) any kind of benefits. Come on now.

As opposed to what? The federal government led by the current Administration taking a stand against the state of Arizona, telling them they have no right to enforce its borders and enforce the Constitution of the United States? Come on now yourself, Freddie. He may be trying to smooth things over and speaking like he's all for immigration reform, but do not be fooled by the cheap talk -- he's firmly against any state stepping out of line from "his desires".

Now ... seriously ... Let's stop blaming Bush for everything and talk about current events. Again, put the Kool-Aid down my friend and open your eyes. The Pied Piper is playing the same old song, and it sounds an awful lot like a funeral dirge.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by TConwell
Now ... seriously ... Let's stop blaming Bush for everything and talk about current events. Again, put the Kool-Aid down my friend and open your eyes. The Pied Piper is playing the same old song, and it sounds an awful lot like a funeral dirge.

Why don't you actually address him instead of saying you've "made your peace" or whatever. It seems like you flat out ignore half of his talking points (usually the good ones, like the Patriot Act). It's not very adult like.

But everything you mention is pretty much a product of Bush's policies. Our middle class went to poop when Bush enacted his tax cuts, thus why the wealth needed to be spread back around. Our current events stem from Bush.

And Arizona's new immigration law is unconstitutional. It violates the fourth amendment for legal citizens if they happen to look a certain way. Don't see how that equates to Obama preventing them from enforcing the constitution .... he's trying to prevent them from blatantly going against it.

Americans do spread the wealth every day . In the form of welfare,food stamps,foreign aid just to quote a couple . The wealth sharing effects most of the world . Obama is following Bill Clinton's foot steps,the same foot steps that has created a housing bubble burst, the falling apart of SS,and the out sourcing of millions of jobs .Obama now has created a bubble (that in the future ) will burst and cause massive head aches. It's called Obamacare .

I blame deregulation/Reaganomics for the last bubble burst more-so than Bill Clinton. The banks obviously knew they were selling bad loans to people who could not afford them in the interest of making quick money. If there was regulation in place to prevent this from happening, the recession may not have hit so hard. I think people should have had more personal responsibility and not be taking out loans on $400k houses and BMWs when they make 50-60 a year, but the banks should not have granted these loans as they pretty much were destined to fail.

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Originally posted by TConwell
Now ... seriously ... Let's stop blaming Bush for everything and talk about current events. Again, put the Kool-Aid down my friend and open your eyes. The Pied Piper is playing the same old song, and it sounds an awful lot like a funeral dirge.

Why don't you actually address him instead of saying you've "made your peace" or whatever. It seems like you flat out ignore half of his talking points (usually the good ones, like the Patriot Act). It's not very adult like.

Your antagonistic comments here are valueless and quite petty, if having any value at all. Sometimes though, remarkably, you offer things that are of great value, and yet other times it's like talking to my 16 year old immature daughter. Just stop man ... really, it's so pithy and child-like I'm amazed that the natural selection you believe in hasn't eliminated you yet. Hmmm ... actually, when it comes to "answering something", you have yet to answer whether or not you'd like me to pay you a visit and shut you up in person this summer when I'm in Illinois. The offer still stands, panty waste.

Originally posted by Freddie

But everything you mention is pretty much a product of Bush's policies. Our middle class went to poop when Bush enacted his tax cuts, thus why the wealth needed to be spread back around. Our current events stem from Bush.

And Arizona's new immigration law is unconstitutional. It violates the fourth amendment for legal citizens if they happen to look a certain way. Don't see how that equates to Obama preventing them from enforcing the constitution .... he's trying to prevent them from blatantly going against it.

Americans do spread the wealth every day . In the form of welfare,food stamps,foreign aid just to quote a couple . The wealth sharing effects most of the world . Obama is following Bill Clinton's foot steps,the same foot steps that has created a housing bubble burst, the falling apart of SS,and the out sourcing of millions of jobs .Obama now has created a bubble (that in the future ) will burst and cause massive head aches. It's called Obamacare .

I blame deregulation/Reaganomics for the last bubble burst more-so than Bill Clinton. The banks obviously knew they were selling bad loans to people who could not afford them in the interest of making quick money. If there was regulation in place to prevent this from happening, the recession may not have hit so hard. I think people should have had more personal responsibility and not be taking out loans on $400k houses and BMWs when they make 50-60 a year, but the banks should not have granted these loans as they pretty much were destined to fail.

Freddie, I know that you around 18 years old so please don't take offense to this next line. Your knowledge of events that happened during the 80s and 90s is quite limited in that you were not involved in the adult world while these things were taking place. True, Reaganomics had its issues but following the Carter years (which oddly enough remarkably resemble what we are seeing today), it was all that the government could do to keep a total destruction from happening. For example, the Iran-hostage situation was a perfect example of terrorist-based nations taking advantage of a weak United States; and thus the Reagan administration was forced to act and act harshly. I expect that the strategic weakening we are seeing now will lead to further acts of terror.

The banking issue is and never has been a product nor the fault of the person sitting in the White House Oval Office -- lest that person continues to throw random numbers out there of how we will pay for it without the gold to back it up. Banking regulation is just that, regulation that is not under the direct control of the POTUS and never has been. These were normal businesses doing bad business with no one paying attention. Again, not the POTUS's job, but in fact the job of the entire American enterprise to pay attention. Everyone was fat, dumb, and rich, so who was going to complain?

Arizona is protecting itself against a nation that doesn't give a damn about immigrants because let's face it; Ohio, Illinois, DC, PA, New York, the Carolinas, etc., are not having a huge influx of folks cross their borders .... and I for one applaud them. I expect the great state of Texas to follow suit and thus the only way in or out illegally will be California; and with representatives like Barbara "I demand respect" Boxer and Nancy "Yes, I will gladly eat your heart" Pelosi in leadership I don't expect that state to ever strengthen anything.

The 4th Amendment speaks specifically of illegal search and seizures. The Arizona law allows police officers to ASK A QUESTION provided they have probable cause ... (Read it here.) Please, know what you are talking about before you hang your hat on misguided facts spewed by talking heads on the Sunday morning news programs.

I cannot believe that an American citizen who thinks with some intelligence can ever, and I do mean ever, think that illegal immigrants should be granted the same rights as American citizens "just because they are here". It's stupid man, and again, I pray that the state of Texas is next and that the rest of the nation can at least respect these states taking a stand. As a military leader with more than 20 years experience I can wholeheartedly say to you that leadership is NOT about popularity and making friends; it is about making the tough calls that weak minded people don't, or can't, make.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by TConwell
Your antagonistic comments here are valueless and quite petty, if having any value at all. Sometimes though, remarkably, you offer things that are of great value, and yet other times it's like talking to my 16 year old immature daughter. Just stop man ... really, it's so pithy and child-like I'm amazed that the natural selection you believe in hasn't eliminated you yet.

I do not believe in natural selection. That theory's credibility died the 70's. I'm a punctuated equilibrium-ist (not sure if that's a word). I prefer the theory that matches up with the fossil record. Natural selection exists on a microevolutionary scale, not large scale. Drawin was a step in the right direction, but he was totally wrong. I have explained this multiple times in the various evolution debate threads and I would appreciate it if you bothered to open up your mind enough to process that I don't fall into the stereotypical evil scientist vision you have of me. Be nice, I may be partially responsible for finding all of your natural resources one day since that is what my field does for the most part.

Originally posted by TConwell
Hmmm ... actually, when it comes to "answering something", you have yet to answer whether or not you'd like me to pay you a visit and shut you up in person this summer when I'm in Illinois. The offer still stands, panty waste.

I have geologic camp. I'll be in South Dakota and Wyoming for a good portion of the summer and then hopefully I'm moving to graduate school.

Originally posted by TConwell
I expect that the strategic weakening we are seeing now will lead to further acts of terror.

Or we could stop invading the Middle East and supporting Israel while they dick with the Palestinians. We wouldn't be over there if they didn't have oil. Africa is in 1000 times as bad a position as the Middle East is and we totally ignore them.

Originally posted by TConwell
The 4th Amendment speaks specifically of illegal search and seizures. The Arizona law allows police officers to ASK A QUESTION provided they have probable cause ... (Read it here.) Please, know what you are talking about before you hang your hat on misguided facts spewed by talking heads on the Sunday morning news programs.

State what the Arizona State Police defines as "probable cause".

Originally posted by TConwell
As a military leader with more than 20 years experience I can wholeheartedly say to you that leadership is NOT about popularity and making friends; it is about making the tough calls that weak minded people don't, or can't, make.

So let Obama do his thing then.

TConwell, you only answered half of Freddie's reply.

And when you say,

I can wholeheartedly say to you that leadership is NOT about popularity and making friends; it is about making the tough calls that weak minded people don't, or can't, make.

Are you saying that Bush made those decisions? That Jimmy Carter made those decisions? I don't think so, Carter and W. Bush are so alike other than their respective parties, they were pussies, other than when it came to money. In Bush's example - Lets send those troops into Iraq for no proper reason! Oil, funneling money into the already strong American Army, money - keep the rich bastards happy! They were and are lovin' it, LOVIN' it!

Oh and

the strategic weakening we are seeing now will lead to further acts of terror.

quote made me laugh, you think that we have strategic weakening with Obama? How about Bush, you think he was smart when it came to terror? Feeding their economy with money on gas, we should have been looking into a way to find out about alternative energy; instead of jumping into the meaningless Iraq War. We could have been starving them of our money, then they would not need to call us demon's and attack us anymore! We would have nothing to do with them! We would be self-sufficient. All of these things come into play when you're dealing with this situation, and I think that Obama has made WAY more steps for US in 1/1/2 years than Bush ever did in 8 years of presidency! I think we need to give him a chance, because so far, he's been right, and all of the nay-sayers have been shut up, other than allen here of course. Yeah we have debt, but we're rapidly coming to be able to clear that debt, GM already payed off their debt 3 years earlier than they were supposed to!

Have a little faith TConwell.


And please on the comments about me not being older than you, I don't care. I just wanted to get my point out there.

Originally posted by Tidus

TConwell, you only answered half of Freddie's reply.

I disagree.

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

So let Obama do his thing then.

11 years ago he was organizing basketball tournaments on the south-side of Chicago, never run a business, state, or any type of government office ... and now he's in charge of a nation. Yeah, his "thing" (if you're referring to the ability to lead) is pretty much non-existent.

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

I'm a punctuated equilibrium-ist (not sure if that's a word).

I'm sorry, but if you don't know what you believe and even what your foundation for ideals is (that is, where your ideals even come from), how can any credibility be given to anything else you say? Stop talking in circles.

This has been fun guys, but I need to go live in the real world for a while and continue being a Patriot; vice bending over and taking it up the arse because some guy on TV says "yes we can".

[Oscar]

I'm older than you so there. waaaaaaaa........

[slosprint]

Not to sound like I am arguing against Obama or anything, but why is "faith" viewed in such a positive light by so many? To me it seems that it means believing in something of which there is little or no evidence for no reason other than because it is easy / makes people happy / the believer is ignorant. Please shoot me down if I am wrong as I know I frequently am.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by TConwell
11 years ago he was organizing basketball tournaments on the south-side of Chicago, never run a business, state, or any type of government office ... and now he's in charge of a nation. Yeah, his "thing" (if you're referring to the ability to lead) is pretty much non-existent.

He served three terms in the Illinois senate. Additionally he upped a group of churches budgets from 70K to 400K while he was in charge of them. He was not a boozer nor did he ever get a DUI like Bush did.

Originally posted by TConwell
I'm sorry, but if you don't know what you believe and even what your foundation for ideals is (that is, where your ideals even come from),

I just said it's based on the fossil record. I can't really say that in a way that doesn't make me sound like a smartass I'm sorry. I really did just say above that it's based on the fossil record. Eldridge and Gould published the punctuated equilibrium theory. Gould is the man who was featured in the Simpsons episode where Lisa finds the fossil angel that turns out to be a hoax.

Originally posted by TConwell
how can any credibility be given to anything else you say? Stop talking in circles.

Stop being so condescending to everyone you don't agree with. Honestly dealing with you is like dealing with a child. You have your mind set one way and it's impossible to convince you otherwise unless the person addressing you is your dad or something.

PS thanks for finally spilling how old your daughter is. I got two years to wait until our date.

Freddie, I know that you around 18 years old so please don't take offense to this next line. Your knowledge of events that happened during the 80s and 90s is quite limited in that you were not involved in the adult world while these things were taking place.

That is true, but I do know a lot changed in the 2000s from the 90s. Money inflated and jobs didn't keep up. Personally speaking, my family had a lot more money to do things in the mid 90s. Things got tougher towards the end of the 90s as money inflated, but it still wasn't bad. Some time in the early 2000s is when companies started outsourcing heavily and inflation shot up with it. My dad lost his job when his company pulled out of this plant in 2001-2002, and completely out of the US in 2005 (which was pretty obviously going to happen, but didn't stop them from moving people around). What did Bush do on this issue? Tax cuts.

You say I need to stop blaming Bush and look at current events, but perhaps your memory is foggy (or as limited as mine on the 80s/90s) on when this recession actually started. June 2008, gas was spiking to $4 in my area, and $5 when I went to New York City. This was the precursor of the banking and auto collapses in September 2008, when the DOW bottomed out.

The biggest joke I think is being told to forget what Bush did and move on from the same people judging Obama, as if the two's actions have nothing to do with each other. Obama's spending is not for the sake of spending, it is New-Deal type tactics in an attempt to pull us out of the recession and keep it from getting to a depression. Obama did not cause this recession, and it is now bouncing back due to his policies.

How about some positive: while unemployment numbers have steadily risen since the recession started, they have now started to level off with 230,000 new private-sector jobs, compared to a year ago when we were losing 750k jobs per month.

I expect that the strategic weakening we are seeing now will lead to further acts of terror.

Over-generalization is a dangerous thing. There are unique circumstances for every situation.

The banking issue is and never has been a product nor the fault of the person sitting in the White House Oval Office -- lest that person continues to throw random numbers out there of how we will pay for it without the gold to back it up. Banking regulation is just that, regulation that is not under the direct control of the POTUS and never has been. These were normal businesses doing bad business with no one paying attention. Again, not the POTUS's job, but in fact the job of the entire American enterprise to pay attention. Everyone was fat, dumb, and rich, so who was going to complain?

Regulation itself obviously isn't directly the POTUS's job (nor are many other things that the current POTUS gets blamed for), but the POTUS does however appoint SEC commissioners, those who actually are responsible for regulation.

Regulation falls under economic policy, and deregulation was a staple of Reaganomics; much of it did begin under Carter, but that's not to say I agree with it there either.

It is the job of the SEC to pay attention, something they weren't doing in 2008 as they were too busy looking at porn to be doing their jobs. I do not believe industry should regulate itself in most cases (exception being when regulation that clearly impedes the actual work that is supposed to be taking place is imposed) because clearly greed ends up ruining things. I'm sorry if that's anti-capitalist, anti-freedom, and anti-America, but it just doesn't work.

Arizona is protecting itself against a nation that doesn't give a damn about immigrants because let's face it; Ohio, Illinois, DC, PA, New York, the Carolinas, etc., are not having a huge influx of folks cross their borders .... and I for one applaud them. I expect the great state of Texas to follow suit and thus the only way in or out illegally will be California; and with representatives like Barbara "I demand respect" Boxer and Nancy "Yes, I will gladly eat your heart" Pelosi in leadership I don't expect that state to ever strengthen anything.

My home state of Rhode Island, and my home city and neighboring cities in particular (Pawtucket, Central Falls, Providence) have very high Portuguese, Peurto Rican, Dominican, Guatemalan and Cape Verde immigration, much of it illegal. My highschool this year has a 29% hispanic population, and I if I remember correctly, it was higher when I attended. Please do not tell me that I don't give a damn about this issue.

I cannot believe that an American citizen who thinks with some intelligence can ever, and I do mean ever, think that illegal immigrants should be granted the same rights as American citizens "just because they are here". It's stupid man, and again, I pray that the state of Texas is next and that the rest of the nation can at least respect these states taking a stand. As a military leader with more than 20 years experience I can wholeheartedly say to you that leadership is NOT about popularity and making friends; it is about making the tough calls that weak minded people don't, or can't, make.

I never said illegals should have the same rights just because they live here - I said legal citizens do have rights. Having brown skin is not probable cause, and asking someone for their papers or ID based on how they look violates the 4th amendment in my opinion.

If you do a little research on Ross Perot you will see that he pretty much predicted the situation that the US is in almost years ago .He said that if NAFTA was put into place that businesses would outsource jobs by the millions >. He also said it would drive down wages for the middle class .He also said The south of the border residents would come by the bus loads to the US .

Obama told people a lot of promises.and changes . This is his fate . He will raise taxes on everyone,that can be seen in the UHC .Its nothing more than taxes.

Back to the illegal issue. Arizona did what the government should be doing .There is nothing unconstitutional about it,and it is not rascal profiling . These people are a burden to the US Ross Perot